‘Truth isn’t the truth,’ Giuliani says of the Russia investigation while NBC’s Chuck Todd laughs

Rudy Giuliani is claiming the ‘truth isn’t the truth’ when asked about the various allegations coming to light in the special counsel’s investigation into Russia’s role in the 2016 election.  

The former New York City mayor, who’s serving on President Donald Trump’s personal legal team, made the comment in an interview on Sunday.   

‘I am not going to be rushed into having him testify so that he gets trapped into perjury,’ Giuliani said on NBC’s ‘Meet the Press’ when asked if Trump would sit down with special counsel Robert Mueller. ‘It’s somebody’s version of the truth. Not the truth.’ 

Rudy Giuliani said ‘Truth isn’t truth’ about the Russia investigation

NBC's Chuck Todd said the comment would become a 'bad meme'

NBC’s Chuck Todd said the comment would become a ‘bad meme’

NBC’s Chuck Todd noted: ‘Truth is truth.’

Giuliani responded: ‘No, it isn’t truth. Truth isn’t truth.’

The former New York City mayor went on to clarify he meant ‘truth isn’t truth’ when two witnesses give conflicting reports in an investigation. 

He cited former FBI director James Comey’s reported claim that Trump talked to him about his former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn, who was being investigated as part of the Russia probe. Trump denies talking to Comey about him.

But Giuliani seemed to realize his ‘truth isn’t truth’ statement could be misinterpreted, telling Todd ‘Don’t do this to me,’ when the ‘Meet the Press’ host groaned, put his head in his hands, and pushed him on the issue. 

Todd laughed, put his head in his hands and shook his head back and forth when Giuliani made his statement and said: ‘Truth isn’t truth? Mr. Mayor do you realize, this is going to become a bad meme.’ 

Giuliani responded to his gesture: ‘Don’t do this to me.’

‘Don’t do truth isn’t truth to me,’ Todd shot back.

Giuliani then went on to clarify: ‘Donald Trump says I didn’t talk about Flynn with Comey. Comey says you did talk about it. So tell me what the truth is. If you’re such a genius.’

Giuliani clarified he was talking about the conflicting reports witnesses give on an incident during an investigation

Giuliani clarified he was talking about the conflicting reports witnesses give on an incident during an investigation

Todd then brought up White House counsel Don McGahn, who the New York Times reported is talking to Mueller’s team: ‘Don McGahn might know.’ 

‘Don McGahn doesn’t know,’ Giuliani said. 

The former mayor went on: ‘So we have two pieces of evidence: Trump says he didn’t tell him. The other guy says that he did say it. So which is the truth?’

Todd conceded Giuliani had a point. 

‘Alright on that point you’re right, on two people,’ he said.



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