Donald Trump’s incoming national security advisor can be seen counseling the then-Russian ambassador to the U.S. to avoid a ‘reciprocal’ confrontation over sanctions the outgoing Obama administration was imposing, newly declassified documents reveal.
Trump’s new Director of National Intelligence Ric Grennel declassified the documents on his way out the door, and new DNI John Ratcliffe transmitted the information to Congress Friday, at which point it promptly leaked.
‘We are taking into account entirely your arguments,’ Russia’s former longtime ambassador to the U.S. told Flynn in a December 29 phone call.
‘I know you have to take some sort of action,’ Mike Flynn told Sergey Kislyak, according to a newly declassified transcript of their December 29, 2016 phone call
‘You might appreciate the sentiments that are raging in Moscow,’ Kislyak tells him at another point.
‘I do appreciate it, I very much appreciate it,’ Flynn responded.
Flynn, who would not take office as Trump’s national security advisor for weeks, urged restraint.
‘But I really don’t want us to get into a situation where we’re going, you know, where we do this and then you do something bigger, and then you know, everybody’s got to go back and forth and everybody’s got to be the tough guy here, you know?’
His guidance was that Moscow respond in a ‘reciprocal basis’ – to avoid having the incoming Trump administration take over during a difficult diplomatic standoff.
Kislyak was a longtime diplomat
President Donald Trump (L) shakes hands with Russian Ambassador to the United States Sergei Kislyak during talks with Russia’s Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov (not in picture) in the Oval Office at the White House
Flynn pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about the call, although his lawyers then sought to toss the case and the Justice Department sought to drop charges
That same day, the outgoing Obama administration imposed sanctions, kicking out Russian diplomats as punishment for Moscow’s interference in the 2016 elections. Prior sanctions in 2014 hit Moscow for Russia’s invasion of Crimea.
Flynn would later plead guilty to lying to the FBI when he said he didn’t remember talking about sanctions with Kislyak.
‘They’re gonna dismiss some number of Russians out of the country,’ Flynn told him.
‘What I would ask Russia to do is not – is – is – if anything – because I know you have to take some sort of action, to, to only make it reciprocal,’ he said, in a full transcript reported published by Iowa Republican Sen. Charles Grassley’s office.
The DNI declassified the call transcripts and gave them to Congress
Flynn urged Kislyak not to get into a ‘tit-for-tat’ – the exact phrase the FBI questioned him about weeks later during his interview in the White House.
‘So, you know, depending on, depending on what uh, actions they take over this current issue of the cyber stuff, you know, where they’re looking like they’re gonna, they’re gonna dismiss some number of Russians out of the country, I understand all that and I understand that – that, you know, the information that they have and all that, but what I would ask Russia to do is to not – is – is – if anything – because I know you have to have some sort of action – to, to only make it reciprocal,’ Flynn asked.
‘Make it reciprocal. Don’t – don’t make it- don’t go any further than you have to. Because I don’t want us to get into something that has to escalate, on a, you know, on a tit for tat. You follow me, Ambassador?’ he said.
‘I understand what you’re saying~ but you know, you might appreciate the sentiments that are raging now in Moscow,’ Kislyak responded.
FBI agents would later ask Flynn if he recalled any interaction with Kislyak over ‘the expulsion of Russian diplomats or closing of Russian properties’ – the Obama sanctions. Flynn ‘stated that he did not,’ according to the official FBI summary of his interview. Flynn stated that he was ‘not aware’ of the upcoming actions and didn’t have access to TV news in the Dominican Republic, where he was traveling and his government Blackberry wasn’t working, according to the FBI notes.
Flynn explained in another portion of the call that the idea was ‘if you have to do something, do something on a reciprocal basis, meaning you know, on a sort of an even basis.
‘Then that, then that is a good message and we’ll understand that message. And, and then, we know that we’re not going to escalate this thing, where we — where because if we put out — if we send out 30 guys and you send out 60, you know, or you shut down every Embassy, I mean we have to get this to a – let’s, let’s keep this at a level that uh is, is even-keeled, okay? ls even-keeled. And then what we can do is, when we come in, we can then have a better conversation about where, where we’re gonna go, uh~ regarding uh, regarding our relationship.’
He called for a common enemy – terrorists in the Middle East. ‘And also, basically we have to take these, these enemies on that we have. And we definitely have a common enemy. You have a problem with it, we have a problem with it in this country, and we definitely have a problem with it in the Middle East,’ he said.
The two men also on the Dec. 29 call discussed a proposal ‘from the Kremlin’ to have Russian President Vladimir Putin and Trump hold a call on Trump’s first full day in office.
‘Maybe to organize a conversation over the secure video line that starting on the twentieth would be available to Mr. Trump. And it’s there, certainly, uh, between the White House and the Kremlin,’ Kislyak told him.
‘And our proposal is to have the conversation on the twenty first between our Presidents. And the idea of Mr. Putin is first of all to congratulate uh, your President-elect or the president, at the time, and maybe to discuss small number – briefly, of issues that are on our agenda,’ Kislyak told Flynn.
Flynn’s response was transcribed as: ‘Okay. Ummm,’ Flynn responded. He then said: ‘I understand.’
A bit later, he told Kislyak: ‘do not, uh, allow this administration box us in, right now, okay?’
‘We have conveyed it,’ Kislyak assured him.