Peter Hitchens questions whether ‘smashed up’ Britain was actually victorious in the Second World War on latest episode of the Mail’s Alas Vine & Hitchens podcast

Best-selling author Peter Hitchens questioned whether Britain was victorious in the Second World War on the latest episode of the Mail’s Alas Vine & Hitchens podcast.

The broadcaster added that the public’s belief in Britain’s total victory constitues a ‘pseudo-religion’, with the 1945 defeat of Nazi Germany actually leaving the country ‘a dump’.

In evidence of his claims, Hitchens told co-host and Mail columnist Sarah Vine, of his own late father’s view of the war, who grew disillusioned years after fighting in the Royal Navy.

The pair were debating the legacy of the Second World War in light of the upcoming 80th anniversary of VE Day.  

‘My father was in the war. He was a professional officer in His Majesty’s Navy’, Hitchens said.

‘He started the war in the Navy and ended the war in the Navy. He ran guns and tanks backwards and forwards, between Scapa Flow in the Orkneys and North Russia. As my brother described it, he ran guns to Joseph Stalin.

‘He lost a lot of friends and saw things he didn’t really want to talk about… and as the years went by after the war, his life did not greatly improve. Nor did the lives of many other people of his kind.

‘My father used to say in conversation: well, at least we won the war – he would then look meaningfully at anybody who was listening and say, “Did we?”

‘I think he had a point. This country in 1945 looked like a defeated nation, not a victorious one. It was impoverished, smashed up, and broken.’

The author contrasted how Britain emerged from the First and Second World Wars, arguing that despite the ‘disaster’ of the Great War, at least the country exited the conflict ‘looking more powerful than we’d ever been’.

Vine and Hitchens debated he legacy of the Second World War in light of the upcoming 80th anniversary of VE Day. Listen here

Peter Hitchens: ‘After the Second World War, Britain was a dump.’ Listen here

After the signing of the Treaty of Versailles, bringing an end to the First World War, the British Empire acquired territories from the defeated Central Powers, including large swathes of the Middle East and Africa. This elevated Britain to its territorial height.

When victory was declared over Nazi Germany, the British economy was instead on its knees, and independence movements, broadly supported by the US, had been firmly fermented across the Empire.

Beyond Britain’s borders, Communist Russia had subsumed almost the entirety of Eastern Europe into the USSR and America had unquestionably supplanted Britain as the world’s preeminent superpower.

‘After the Second World War, this place was a dump’, Hitchens said.

‘Everything was rationed. There was worse rationing after the war than during it. Even bread had to be rationed, which is astounding for a supposedly advanced country.

‘This carried on being the case for a very long time. When my father’s naval pension turned out not to be worth very much, his general attitude towards the victory grew less and less happy. I don’t think this was uncommon.’

Vine disagreed with Hitchen’s take on the legacy of the Second World War, telling her co-host that VE Day is important to celebrate to commemorate veterans of the conflict. 

She added that VE Day marks a time when Britain ‘stood for something’, fighting against tyranny, even if it wasn’t in the country’s material interests.

She said: ‘VE Day celebrations are really about the people who remain. There aren’t many veterans left. It will be interesting to see if this sort of celebration continues once the last few remaining veterans have passed on.

‘There’s a very acute sense of Britain having stood for something. That we had been brave in the world, a country of people who had stood against a common evil.

Sarah Vine: ‘Britain was brave, we stood against a common evil.’ Listen here

Vine said that VE Day marks a time when Britain ‘stood for something’, fighting against tyranny, even if it wasn’t in the country’s material interests. Listen here

Sarah Vine ‘When I think about VE Day, I remember my grandfather Arthur’s life. What he had been through.’ Listen now

‘People really miss that now because I think we all feel that isn’t the case anymore. VE Day is a love letter to that world.’

The journalist then referred to her own grandfather, who had returned from the war psychologically scarred, as the reason for her continued celebration of VE Day.

‘My grandfather Arthur fought throughout the whole of Europe and North Africa, ending up in Burma. He would have been the last person to glorify war.

‘If he were alive today, he would not be celebrating the war. He would have celebrated his men.

‘That experience destroyed his life. Afterward, he became a very serious alcoholic – and had galloping PTSD.

‘When I think about VE Day, I remember his life. What he had to put up with, what he had to deal with. I don’t want it all to have been for nothing.’

Listen to the full episode of Alas Vine & Hitchens now, wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes are released every Wednesday.

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