Rassie Erasmus channels his mischievous side as he walks down the picture-perfect Bloubergstrand Beach. ‘Do you think this would be a lekker (Afrikaans for ‘superb’) place to come and visit every other year?’ he quips.
The temperatures are almost 85ºF (30ºC) and the southern Atlantic Ocean is crystal clear.
There is a burning question he has been waiting to answer: does he think South Africa should join the Six Nations?
Rassie Erasmus believes it would be great to see South Africa join the Six Nations
It has been one of rugby’s biggest debates of the year so far, sparking a furious backlash from the traditionalists who do not want to change the status quo.
‘Just remember,’ he says, ‘this is purely my own personal opinion. I don’t need to get myself into any more trouble! I’ve always been a massive fan of the Six Nations. Murrayfield is awesome, the Aviva is awesome, Twickenham is awesome. I love the atmospheres and their rich tradition of singing.
‘Speaking from the South African side of the fence, I would love to see the Springboks in the Six Nations. The style of play, the travel and the time zones would all suit South Africa.
‘You could fly in overnight on Thursday, play on a Saturday and fly back on Sunday. It would be easy. When we go to Australia or New Zealand, you wake up at 2am and don’t know what day it is!
Erasmus says South Africa would be an attractive place to visit for Six Nations teams and fans
‘We are locked in with the Rugby Championship until 2025, so for now it is still hypothetical. Just please don’t mistake this for me saying the Rugby Championship is bad. I love New Zealand, I love Australia and I love Argentina. Gus Pichot is a legend.
‘If someone with proper research showed me that South Africa joining the Six Nations would make the Rugby Championship weaker and damage the growth of the global game, then we shouldn’t do it. But right now, speaking as a South African, I think joining the Six Nations would be awesome.’
Every corner he turns, Erasmus is stopped by star-struck locals who ask him for a photograph. In contrast to the pantomime villain reputation he holds outside of South Africa, he is rugby royalty at home.
South Africa won the 2019 Rugby World Cup with Erasmus in charge as head coach
And last year the Springboks defeated the British and Irish Lions in a tight Test series
His opinions are held in the highest regard and today he has become the first high-profile figure to publicly support the Six Nations proposal.
When Sportsmail broke the story last month, Erasmus read Sir Clive Woodward’s column shooting down the idea, but that has not affected his stance.
‘I read the comments underneath Sir Clive’s article,’ he explains. ‘People were saying, “We don’t want Rassie Erasmus making a two-hour video after every game” and “What about tradition?” Of course tradition is important but I don’t think we can hang everything on that.
‘Traditionally, the Six Nations was the Five Nations. Traditionally, the Rugby Championship was the Tri Nations. People say, “What about the Lions tour?” The Lions tour is unique; we can still do Lions tours. If the six countries say it would not benefit them then that’s cool, we carry on as we are.
Investors CVC were the driving force behind the idea after buying a stake in the competition
The proposals saw the Springboks potentially replace Italy – who haven’t won a Six Nations match since 2015
‘But if everything in life is dictated by tradition, we’d still be ploughing fields with horses. Nothing would ever change.
‘Let’s take Test match cricket. When I was younger, Brian Lara was one of my heroes. I would listen to his whole Test match on the radio. In fact, I would listen to every provincial game and I knew every single cricket player.
‘When the limited-overs game came in, we all thought, “Damn, this is awful, what about tradition?” We didn’t want change. Then the World Cup came in, Twenty20 came in, the IPL came in. Nobody wanted the change to start with but look at it now. It’s as big as ever and Test match cricket is still packed out at Lord’s.
‘I think you only screw up tradition if you make something worse. Will South Africa make the Six Nations worse? Well, we might have a relapse, go back to playing attractive running rugby and be sixth in the world.
Erasmus believes having more world class teams competing will only benefit the Six Nations
‘If we are number six or seven in the world it probably doesn’t benefit the Six Nations. Or we might keep playing boring rugby and stay at number one, two or three. Surely the more high-class teams you get in the competition the better.’
Earlier in the day, Erasmus spent a few hours reflecting on the challenges of the last eight months at a nearby vineyard. His body language was strained. When he talks about the future, he seems re-energised. The smile returns.
By the time South Africa could potentially join the Six Nations in 2025, Erasmus’s contract as director of rugby will be up. England prop Joe Marler recently talked him up for a role with World Rugby. Does either appeal?
‘I’m 50. I’m too old for World Rugby! There are things in rugby that I think need to change.
Japan have been linked with joining the Six Nations in the past but this has not happened yet
‘There’s too much microscopic stuff in the game now. We worked out that a referee needs to make between 800 and 850 decisions in one match. It’s impossible, man. It leaves the referee open to criticism — I would know! — and that’s not fair.
‘There are too many grey areas to let the game flow. You are always going to get one team that’s p***** off, whether they say it publicly or not. Did you know there are 58 things you can be punished for at a scrum and 38 in a lineout?
‘There are simple solutions but we need to be open-minded. World Rugby need to take control and simplify it. But me with World Rugby? Come on! I’ll leave that job to the younger guys like Joe!’
And what about the prospect of coaching England? He would have been down as a prime candidate after winning the World Cup in 2019. Does he see himself moving to foreign shores in 2023?
The Springboks are scheduled to play in the Rugby Championship until 2025
‘I don’t think the English people would ever want me there now. Maybe I am wrong. I hope I am wrong. Would I coach another country? If my own people were cool with it and the other country’s people were cool with it then why not?
‘But if my own people are going to hate me for it, then I would never do it. I hate the fact that so many people hate me in rugby right now. I’m not a confrontational guy. I like to get on with people.
‘South Africa has my heart but coaching England would be amazing because I think they can win. I would love to coach Ellis Genge.
‘Any prop that looks the other prop in the eyes before a scrum, you know he’s a dog. You don’t want a prop that’s looking at his toes, scared. I want guys like Genge on my team.
Erasmus said he wouldn’t coach England if that meant upsetting South Africans
But acknowledged he would like to coach the likes of England prop Ellis Genge (above)
‘If South Africans accepted me doing that, like when Nick Mallett went to coach Italy, then of course I would love it. If I felt like South Africans were not going to hate me on the street then I would consider it.
‘A couple of years ago, people would have said, “Go over there now, make a few pounds and be successful”. Things changed last year. Life is a bit different now.’
As he poses for photographs down by the sea, after several hours of interviewing, the recording device beeps with a low-battery warning.
‘Maybe it’s a sign,’ Erasmus jokes. ‘Maybe I should stop talking before I get myself in more trouble!’
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